Sankyo 101 120V 60 hz motor questions

[Werner1111]

HI - this is my 2nd post on the forum, after my introduction.

I recently acquired a non-working orange Sankyo 101. After taking it apart, the motor is the culprit. It will run for a bit and stop. Initially, it ran for a few seconds, then it ran for about 15-30 seconds, but now it only runs for a second. It's got a 120V 60Hz motor. I believe it does about 5-6 RPM, but I need to look at the seconds gear closer to determine what it should be. I think it is a synchronous clock motor, which, after reading about them, is such a cool concept. I have seen a few different motors for sale with a similar look, but with different RPMs and without a 10 tooth gear.

Before I go about trying to open it up, does anyone have any experience with this type of motor that they can share? The motor portion itself is sealed. I'm curious how to open it up and also, what is the other piece on the bracket? Is the wound part a transformer (see picture)? Can I just replace the motor component, or do I need to replace the entire unit? Or, could I open it up and attempt to resurrect it?

Thanks for your help.

[tonyofthelord]

check this video I know it's not your clock but it shows how the motor works. https://youtu.be/Am-CRRj3WxE

[Werner1111]

check this video I know it's not your clock but it shows how the motor works. https://youtu.be/Am-CRRj3WxE

Thanks. That gave me a better visual understanding. After seeing that, I was able to pull the motor out of the bracket, though I have not opened it up. I can turn the gear by hand in both directions It periodically runs into some resistance, but I can't reproduce the resistance in any logical way. I rested the motor back on top of the bracket and plugged in the wire - I can feel vibration in the motor, but it's not rotating. I'm still not clear on what's going on in the other part of this bracket, which looks like a coil, and how it is causing the motor to turn - more research is necessary.

I counted gear teeth and did some math - The motor needs to turn at 6 RPM.

N

[Werner1111]

OK, perhaps this is the issue. The shaft may have become disconnected from the magnet:

[Johan de Jong]

Hi Andrew and welcome to the club!

That video you show is a different motor that also works differently. In your motor there is no magnet.
Here is roughly how it works: the coil around the can produces an alternating magnetic field. Inside the can there is a rotor (looks like a little antenna) that will spin by the forces produced by the magnetic field. Also inside the can there is a gearbox that reduces the speed from 60 rpm on the rotor to 6 rpm on the outgoing gear.

There are two common issues with this type of motor: dried out lubrication and a broken gear.

Please see this post on how to open up the can:

https://www.flipclockfans.com/forum/forum/clock-show-and-tell/clock-restoration-and-repair/21785-sankyo-sealed-can-motor-repair

And in case the rotor gear inside is broken, here is how to replace it:

https://www.flipclockfans.com/forum/forum/clock-show-and-tell/clock-restoration-and-repair/25559-replacement-of-the-rotor-gear-in-a-sankyo-sealed-can-motor

BTW I'm quite surprised your Sankyo 101 has this "sealed can" type of motor. I own a Sankyo 101 but that has the Intermatic motor. Apparently they have been produced with both motors.

Hope you get it fixed! It is a lovely clock.

[Werner1111]

HI Johan - thanks for the welcome and the very useful intel. That's exactly what I needed. I had tried some heat on the white sealant, but that didn't work. Obviously, in retrospect. I'll go at it with mechanical means over the weekend and open it up. Fantastic!

I picked up this clock for a good price and something told me it might clean up well. I spent last night going over the case with my automotive rotary polishing tool using finer and finer levels of cutting paste until I got to a decent finish. For now, I only have the "before pictures". Some scratches were too deep to remove, but I'm happy with the result. Those "after" pictures will come later.

[Werner1111]

I snapped some "after" pictures just now. The internals are still on my workbench. You can see some stubborn scratches in the last picture in the reflection. Overall, I'm pretty happy. There is quite a dramatic color difference noticeable in the cutout where the alarm button sits. The orange has become darker over time. Note the lighter orange beginning at the top of the lever slot and continuing downward. This area has been protected by the alarm button.

[flipoclock]

Good result! What rotary tool do you use for the polishing?

If you're not already familiar with it, you can try polywatch as well, it works really well for the finer scratches!

[Werner1111]

I'm using a Flex Kompact3. I got a really good deal on it and the larger 5" Flex at an estate sale. The Kompact3 allows you to change the size of the polishing head and it can use a 1", 2", or 3" head/pad combo. It's pretty ideal for clock bodies. I've only used the 1" so far and it does the job well. I turned down the speed to be cautious, for now. I also used it on the chromed plastic on the Linden clock in my introduction post.

And thank you for the info on polywatch. I was not familiar with it and will investigate.

[Werner1111]

Johan - I'm struggling here to separate the motor from the aluminum cup. I used a dental pick and was able to remove the sealant in two pieces in about 30 seconds. I tried tapping the edge as you suggested and it did move the insides towards the edge. Eventually, the first disc came out. It ended up separating from the rest of the motor, Though I didn't do that intentionally. Eventually, the gear separated from the shaft. For the past 3 hours, I have been patiently wiggling, twisting, swearing, heating and even tried compressed air but no luck. It's definitely moved out and I can get the top of the gear unit enough above the edge to slip a small screw driver in to it for prying, but still no joy. For all my efforts, the gear unit does continually moving out just a little bit at a time, but at this rate it will take another 8 hours. Do you have any suggestions?

Thanks

[Werner1111]

Well, I guess it took a bit of complaining. I returned to the task and it finally came apart in the next 20 minutes. I have a loose gear with one broken tooth and I don't yet know it's location. Phew, that was a PITA.

[Werner1111]

I did a little more thinking about this motor. Something doesn't quite make sense to me regarding how the input is connected to the output spline. I attempted to follow the gears back from the output spline. In the picture below, the output is turning CW. It turns the connected gear CCW. However the larger gear on the 2nd shaft does not turn with the other gear/shaft. I've indicated those two gears by the yellow line. I'm not sure whether this is on purpose or if it's also broken. However, because of this, power received from the plastic gear (see next photo) would not be transferred on towards the output shaft.



Back to the gear train, I've picked up at the large gear adjacent to the steel disc, noted by the yellow arrow, in the picture below. I've assumed that the two adjacent metal gears are indeed supposed to be connected. At this point, the metal gear is turned by a plastic gear (remember we're going backwards from output to input) and continues through a variety of gears.



The green arrow in the picture below is the same as the last gear in the picture above. Unfortunately it dead-ends here. II have the loose gear with the one missing tooth, mentioned in a prior post, but I'm not sure where that goes. I thought, perhaps, that the metal shaft on which it rode would have fallen out of the case when I opened it up, but that didn't occur. I believe that the gear that would be on the input shaft is different than the one that fell out because 1) There's no way to get that gear onto the input shaft w/o significant force (it couldn't have just fallen off) and 2) there were black/brown broken bits that came out of the unit when I was flushing it with alcohol to try to free it up, which I think were the input shaft gear.



So now what? I'm starting to think I should try to find a replacement gearbox/motor. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

As a final thought, this appears to be different from Johan's gearbox in his post where he shows how to disassemble the gearbox.

Thanks

[Johan de Jong]

Oof, that motor is giving you a really tough time! Glad you got it out in the end.
Only advice I could have given is to try to not damage the inside of the case when removing the seal and to clean that inside surface as smooth as possible.

I happened to have one motor open that I still want to repair, so I could compare it to your pictures. It appears to me that your pictures are mirrored, is that right?
I see three issues in your motor:
- The gear that you indicated in the first picture should indeed be attached to that axle. I would try to use superglue to attach it again. It is the one but last gear in the chain, so it needs to transfer relatively large force.
- The gear on the rotor axle is totally gone. The brown bits you found were probably indeed the remains of it. As I mentioned earlier, this post shows how to replace that: https://www.flipclockfans.com/forum/...aled-can-motor
- The loose double gear you found is the second gear counting from the rotor. It is clearly damaged. To replace that you could order the two single gears from kkpmo.com and glue them together to form a double gear. See this post on how to determine the gear dimensions: https://www.flipclockfans.com/forum/...5578#post25578 More worrying is that this gear should be on a metal axle. Can it have fallen out by accident? I'm afraid you will need to do a very thorough search of your workplace.

[Werner1111]

It appears to me that your pictures are mirrored, is that right?

No, it's not a mirror image. It definitely looks different that the one in your thread about taking it apart. The metal gears do look like a mirror image of the one you just attached to the previous post.

More worrying is that this gear should be on a metal axle. Can it have fallen out by accident? I'm afraid you will need to do a very thorough search of your workplace.

I haven't found it yet. I measured the rod on the input shaft and it is 0.92 mm. Let's call it 1mm. I can buy 1mm steel rod online for not much money. I may have to spend some time sanding the rod, or enlarging the holes. However, the rod I buy may not actually be exactly 1mm. Hopefully it's a bit small.

I'll work on figuring out the gear size. I've done it before with substantially larger gears, but that strategy probably wouldn't work for gears so small.

[Werner1111]

Going off Johan's gear replacement post, I chose gears for a Sankyo with module 0.16. When I put that module into kkpmo.com's form, along with the teeth needed, module 0.16 gave the closest diameter to what I have. Of course, all the gears would have to be the same module, or 0.16.

I also found a seller on eBay selling 0.9mm and 1.0mm steel rod. I figured I'd try one of each to see which fits best. There are multiple sellers on eBay selling this. Amazon and McMaster Carr also carry it, but MC only has down to 1.0mm diameter. I bought the rod 1st and will wait to buy the gears once the rod arrives and I choose the diameter.