Sourcing Clear Acrylic Cylinders for the Howard Miller and upcycling clocks

[Mackey]

Robert J (@flipclock_nl) and I have talked about making some sort of knock off of the Howard Miller flip clock. This would, of course, require obtaining some acrylic tubing or cylinders. Additionally, since I have recently and very fortunately come into ownership of an original Howard Miller Flip Clock - I was wondering about replacing the cylinder. In my case, someone seems to have had this in the sun, there is a dip at the top. Additionally there has been some yellowing.

Well. I've learned a little about this stuff. You want casted not extruded acrylic tubing. The casting is able to produce high optical clarity (which is what we want of course).
I purchased some extruded stuff (only about $20 for a foot of it including shipping) to ensure the sizing was correct and also learn how to cut this stuff properly / squarely.
The Howard Miller takes a 3.25 inch outer diameter 1/8 inch thick (3 inch inner diameter) tubing. The one I bought fit properly but it was no where near the optical quality needed (I'm going to use this stuff for flip clock stands). I learned that you need a saw with high tooth count (the more the better). I got a carbide tipped 12 in blade with 92 teeth for my Dewalt Miter saw (them blades is high dollar). I needed to be able to squarely cut this stuff. It worked great.

But here's the problem.
The stuff I need:

• High optical clarity
• Lightweight
• UV stabilized; resistant to weathering
• Provides dimensional stability
• High impact resistance
• Maximum temperature: 200°F

The cost for this quality stuff is $36.18/Foot with high shipping costs of $38 AND you must buy 5 feet minimum.
This would be $235 total with shipping and tax.
Crazy!
I would have 4 other feet to use and I could make blanks for either upcycled clocks or to see as replacements for Howard Miller clocks I guess.
But over 200!!

Any thoughts?
Maybe I shouldn't go for perfection.

NOTE: I am in communication with the company that sells the stuff I need. It's possible they will work with me. This remains to be seen.

[RetroFlip]

I've actually thought about this a bit. You might say find a glass vase that is matching the needed diameter, that may give you optical clarity, lower cost, but be less impact resistant. An example would be here. You would have to cut them down though using a glass tube cutter.

In the same vein you could investigate plastic drink tumblers, if you could find one that wasn't tapering and had good optical quality, like this for example you might be able to get something that is much cheaper.

Lastly other material to look at would be polycarbonate tubing, x25 more impact resistant than acrylic, though unless you find optical grade the clarity won't be as good as cast acrylic I think. Price wise it's not going be a lot less than the acrylic.

If you are designing one of your own you could design it around the diameter of whatever you find fits best for the tubing, so you wouldn't have to find an exact match on the OD. When I'm making something I always like to design it around the hardest to source part.

Edit: I looked up my notes, the other thing to look at is opened ended for glass would be Hurricane Candle Holders, not as likely to be tapered. I see those often as "borosilicate glass"

[Mackey]

Thanks for the info. Yes. It it weren't for me being confined by the diameter I could go other routes. Finding a 3.25 diameter cylinder (glass or otherwise) has been very difficult. Plus, when looking for end caps (likely wooden lids) I can't find any that would meet the requirements. If I was going for upcycled, like you said, I could match the tubing to the lids then go that route.
So, if I did splurge and get the good stuff, I'd have to get custom woodworking done.

Hopefully the company will work with me. I'm trying to work out a deal with them - possibly for advertising ... I don't know.

I won't go glass on the Howard Miller because I want to it be original like. Plus I'd be concerned about breakage. Drilling, cutting and smoothing glass is a piece of work.

[RetroFlip]

Saw on your recent video there are mounting holes underneath, so I understand your point about glass being too much work.

[Guest]

Man, finding optical quality stuff at a low cost is going to be impossible at small quantities. I used to work for Oakley (sunglasses, glasses, motocross goggles, etc) and we worked with Lexan and derivatives and was used (custom config) for goggle blanks. Other names for Lexan-like plastic polycarbonates are Cyrolon, Zelux, Apex, Texin and Unicar. Maybe searching around for those names might show something? Again, they are pretty expensive. I only know that flat acrylic (Plexiglass) can be fairly good for optic viewing, but not for tube configs.

I don't know of any source for small quantities of optical grade polys. Hope that company can work with you.

[flipoclock]

5 feet does sound like a bit much, the material looks good though! Did you check for Chinese suppliers? I remember having googled it awhile ago and did find some there, but not sure about sizing for that would be critical if you are looking for your clock. If I were to make one for myself, I would work with the material available which would be large enough to house the clockwork.

On the other hand, if you would offer the rest material, finished and all, up on ebay as replacements for this particular clock, let's say for US$ 50 or a bit north of that, you would need to sell a couple of them and you would have made your money back... I realize the market is not big, but surely there are some people out there that would be in dire need for a replacement casing for the HM clock.

[Mackey]

Well. I bit the bullet and bought the acrylic tubing from United States Plastic Corp. It's my Father's day present to me. Let's just not tell the wife.
Anyway, the pictures and videos kind of hide the problems with the current cylinder:
Yellowing, cracking and bowing.



I'm hopeful I'll find a use for the rest of the tubing. I'm very likely to offer it as a replacement for the Howard Miller clock.
I think many will agree - once you've seen it, it can't be unseen.
The bowing is considerable. At first I though the motor generated heat over the years to do that. But my thought now is the the clock was exposed to the sun. The digits and tubing are very yellowed and it seems unlikely the motor could generate that much heat.

[flipoclock]

Best to stick with something as original as possible I guess. Should you ever have a shipment coming to me again, I might be willing to buy some tubing off of you for it would be the perfect size to make my own HM flipclock, but there's no rush, I still have no 3D printer, something to do with priorities

[Mackey]

Sounds like a plan

[Mackey]

What a nightmare.
The 5 foot long tube arrive and I was horrified to find that it had all sorts of inclusions in the plastic in some areas. Some pieces are a mess. And customer service at that place is worthless. No response to my emails.

Because I'm focus on getting my Howard Miller up to snuff, I just went with it. I still can't find this particular size anywhere. So I'm using it.

What I've learned: Cutting this stuff correctly is a trick. You need high tooth count blade and preferably something that will cut square.
In cutting this at times the blade made produce a little bit of what looks like flash attached to the tube. This Must be sanded or cut off. Do Not try to scrape it off with a fingernail - it will mess up the edge. After cutting the tube you'll need to sand carefully by hand (trying to avoid getting it out of square with the sides of the tube). Then follow this with a buffing wheel and polishing compound - for a long while to get it looking like glass on the edges. This will be hidden for the most part, but it does make a difference in how the light flows in the tube - it should be polished. You could lose from 1/16 to 1/8 inch (1.5 to 3 mm) in length when doing the edges

When I first got the tube I thought it was junk. It had a opaque, bluish look to it. (This company does not seem to care much about their products). But I'm thinking now that that was probably mold release or something. There were fine scratches throughout. But. With polishing it's starting to look like clear glass.

The tube is going to be best polished by hand. It's going to take time. A whole lot of precious time. It's going to take patience and time, to do it right, child.

Trying to due the exterior of the tube (not counting the edges) with a machine is going to possibly (likely) cause hot spots and optical aberrations. Just by hand, in my book.

The interior also must be polished. Since it's a short piece, it's doable by hand.

Here's what I've really learned: There's no money in this!
Just think of the cost of the wood/parts, a decent mechanism, the tubing and all the time... that precious time. You'll never get your money back on these - most wouldn't appreciate what it would cost.

The only reason to do it ... is because you can.


What's next: Got to make a template and drill the holes. Then I'm going to get the best Copal 101 mech I have and use that. I was able to get the handle off the original to use on the shiny new mechanism.

New Verses Old

[Guest]

Man...so sorry it has been a nightmare! How crazy for that company to sell something so sloppy. Bummer....

I wonder if it is just for being able to view whatever is traveling through it. I saw that it said FDA approved so maybe it's just for being able to view liquids passing through, but not being totally perfect. I really don't know what it would be used for, except for liquid, maybe?

Well, hopefully you can salvage it enough so it is, at least, better than the old, oxidized acrylic. Looking forward to seeing it all done!

[RetroFlip]

Well, what you managed does seem like quite an improvement so far!

If you do buy more in the future, I'm wondering if you have any local plastic distributors, maybe you'd get better customer service from them. (been hit and miss in my experience, especially as a hobbyist trying to engage a B2B) At the very least you might have a chance to visually inspect tubing before purchase. And perhaps a sign shop or plastic fabrication place, could give you a quote on a finished piece, holes and all.

What wood are you considering for the ends?

[Daddy-O]

I've got to hand it to you Mackey. You have really created a rod for your own back with this project. Still, your persistence looks like it is paying off and you will have an amazing clock at the end of it all. Good on you!

[flipoclock]

Despite the struggle, it looks amazing, good job!

[Mackey]

Well, what you managed does seem like quite an improvement so far!

If you do buy more in the future, I'm wondering if you have any local plastic distributors, maybe you'd get better customer service from them. (been hit and miss in my experience, especially as a hobbyist trying to engage a B2B) At the very least you might have a chance to visually inspect tubing before purchase. And perhaps a sign shop or plastic fabrication place, could give you a quote on a finished piece, holes and all.

What wood are you considering for the ends?

Not sure. Right now I'm focused on replacing the tube in the Howard Miller. In fact .... Got done with paperwork early and have been working on the clock and got it done!
I'm making a video on the process. Took a couple of days (primarily since I still have to do my real job).
Anyway, I'm very happy with the outcome. Video to follow.

The concept of "getting some tubing and upgrading" or making upcycled clocks is easier on paper than reality. It's hours of work.
Anyway, I'll be posting the video tomorrow sometime.

[flipoclock]

The concept of "getting some tubing and upgrading" or making upcycled clocks is easier on paper than reality. It's hours of work.

I have no doubt about that, but that would be the fun of it.... I would try to source the tubing from China or thereabouts and make the other necessary mounts for the sides and the one to stand on with a 3D printer, but that's something for the future

[Mackey]

It really was enjoyable but when I started polishing the edges and drilling it became a little nerve wracking - thinking I could blow hours of work. More details later in video.

[Mackey]

And finally .... Here's how I did it.