Cifra 3 problem and fix

[Guest]

Yet another newer Cifra 3 with problems.

So, it seems the newer models (battery version) from the past few years run into issues after running for 3 to 5 years. These problems range from timekeeping slowness to the hours not advancing in sync with the hour minutes moving from :59 to :00...or not at all.

Well, this is the 3rd one, 1 from 2015 and 2 from 2016, where the hours would not tick over. There is an off-center (eccentric) cam for the minutes that eventually ticks over the hour when :59 goes to :00. The cam interacts with a small cylindrical spindle (about 2.0mm in dia.) that drops into the dip in the eccentric cam.

It turns out that the spindle is made of a fairly soft metal that eventually grinds flat on the side that slides along the eccentric cam. This is due to almost no lubrication existing on the surface of the cam as the spindle slides along. As said, the spindle is also a soft, low-grade metal. The one in the attached picture shows the flat spot that has ground into it. The spindle ALREADY has a flat portion, but that is not the spot in question. The worn area is highlighted by the arrow.



This spindle is a press-fit into the metal arm in the picture. The white plastic cam shown is the part that physically pushes the hour wheel when the spindle drops along the eccentric cam. There is no reliable way to remove that spindle. So, for now, the only way to fix this is to very slightly bend the spindle about .5 to 1mm forward in the direction of the flat spot. This makes up for the material lost from the spindle and will let the clock flip the hours when it is supposed to. Some lubrication will be needed, as well, on any metal-to-metal parts. The factory uses virtually NONE or so little so as to not be doing the job.

[Mackey]

Nice. This will come in handy. Thanks for this.

[flipoclock]

Good to know indeed, it makes sense that it has to be wear on one of the parts. The one that I had my hands on, the mechanism itself was still working, there was nothing wrong with that, but a 'little' wear and tear can cause a lot of issues for such an expensive clock apparently.

[Guest]

It really is ridiculous how much they charge for these. The customer who has this one got it in Italy at the Solari store back in 2016. That little spindle is a design flaw...all they have to do is add an inexpensive Nylon or Delrin sleeve to it and that would last much longer and slide a lot easier without wearing away. In fact, I am researching that to see if I can find something made from those materials that can fit over the end of the spindle.

In the meantime, I have to use a fix that is crude, which I do not like.

[RetroFlip]

Delrin laser cuts pretty well, so that might be another option for you depending on how long the spindle is, could match the flat area on the spindle in the internal cut.

[Guest]

Yep, just have to measure it out and see if I can find stock of that size. I have some micro drill bits and also some micro files so I could make these, most likely. Then, just press them on, but not too tight so they split. Even better would be a tiny wheel that rolls along the edge of the eccentric part. Then, almost no friction to worry about at all. But...that would be a lot of work to fabricate for very few clocks.

Fortunately, the current fix does not require too much bending so no chance of it breaking off. And, I think the new, synthetic lubrication will also help as this clock seemed to have next to nothing. It was just dry metal to metal

[Guest]

Found a good source for Acetal Copolymer aka "Delrin", which is far more durable than typical acrylic and other plastics. I purchased a 12-inch (minimum) 4.78mm dia. round-stock piece and should have it in a week or so.

I think this will work as a wear pad for the Cifra 3's mechanism so we don't have to bend that piece described above. I will need to cut and finish the piece as well as drill and epoxy to the spindle that wears out. I think an outer diameter of 3.5 to 3.75mm will work for this application. I'll post pics as I go through this.

We also use this material in turntables for bushings, etc. when the factory plastic wears out. That along with a thin layer of synthetic lubrication makes for a durable solution.

[gdoubleu]

Thanks a lot, Engineer, for putting this together. I have two clocks that have this problem so I decided to go ahead and follow your temporary fix.

Below is how I have found the spindle on two of my clocks:



I will following what you will do for a longer lasting fix.

[gdoubleu]

Also, looking at the picture of right, the spindle is flat on one its whole side, not just a section. I don't know that this means to your theory. If I recall correctly, the clock on the right is the one that came back from Solari

[Guest]

Yes, there is a flat spot all the way down the length, but that does not make contact with the eccentric wheel on the hours mechanism. I am not sure why they make the spindle that way.

The flat spot that is only partially cut into the metal spindle (as shown in my original pic and in your first pic) is where the contact is made and slowly wears away. It is a poor design.

[Guest]

FIXED! Got a piece of Delrin cut, lathed and drilled. Pressed onto the end of the spindle with a small dab of epoxy and voila...

Delrin is VERY durable (much more than standard acrylic) and naturally slippery. I am still using a very small bit of lubrication, however.

FYI, the spindle diameter is about 1.86mm. My drilled hole in the delrin is about 1.56mm so it will press on tightly, but not too tight as to split or crack. The outer diameter was 2.85mm (down from my estimated 3.5+mm). If the OUTER diameter is too large then the small plastic cam above the spindle will start too far back and won't align the hour properly when it turns over...it'll push them a bit too far.

[TerryLing]

My Cifra 3 is having the exact same issue.

I am trying to look for a fix in Toronto but could not find any.

would you have a video that I could follow to fix the clock?

[Matty1]

Hello. Is this still an issue for such cifra 3s bought even today brand new? It’s been circa 10 years since its re release so wondered if it’s been fixed?